Excellent analysis. I write about Third Wave/Vineyard/IHOP/Bickle/emergence of the NAR in my upcoming book for Eerdmans (Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Nonessentials). One data point that jumped out at me as I reviewed some of the major streams within the broader Evangelical movement was how many places C. Peter Wagner had a major influence: in the early days of the Vineyard, Church Growth Movement, and the NAR. Though I was always aware of his presence in each of those spheres, somehow seeing his fingerprints appearing in some many places sort of took me aback.
Thanks, Michelle. I agree. Whether you think it was for good or for ill (and I am very much in the "for ill" camp), Peter Wagner's immense impact on the American and global church cannot be denied. In many ways, he is the central character of my book, The Violent Take It by Force.
I appreciate your work on this subject and your connecting of the dots. However, I don't particularly appreciate your liberal talking points (both in this article and your appearance on Remnant Radio.
1) homosexuality is not something "considered sin" in 5 fold circles. It's straight scripture, supported by all non-woke bible believing churches.
2) Being a Christian and believing in/supporting Israel and the Jewish people is not "Christian Zionism", as though it's a radical, aggressive movement bent on world domination.
3) You also seem to be ringing your hands over "Christian Nationalism", a great woke label applied to any believer who has an ounce of patriotism. To blame Jan. 6 on that/those is patently absurd. This was a false flag event sponsored by your beloved FEDS.
4) Wimber didn't pull the plug on Bickle and KC Metro Vineyard because of false prophecies. Wimber was trying to bring correction and accountability, which of course Bickle ultimately rejected for reasons that are becoming increasingly clear. Bickle pulled out the the Vineyard Assoc. of Churches.
Now that many months have passed, we see the Bickle pickle mess continue to unfold in greater clarity. Questions surface based on the evidence. Case in point, the constant evidence shows that when predators are found at this ministry, their actions are typically ignored and they are sometimes promoted to higher levels for protection. This is their consistent mode of operation.
However one example stands out, and in any investigation where there is a break in the predators’ method should be investigated. What I am speaking about is Paul Cain. According to their consistent actions, this should have been swept under the rug and Paul promoted, but he was not. Instead Bickle, Joyner, and Deere all attacked and publicly smeared him. Why?
Why were their actions on Cain different than all the others? Was it perhaps about something other than Homosexuality from what we have been told?
If a lack of ecclesiastical authority is to blame then how do you explain the culture of rampant abuse and cover-up that has come to light concerning the Roman Catholic Church in recent years?
I wasn't suggesting that the presence of ecclesiastical authority is sufficient to restrain abuse or circumvent cover ups - obviously that's not the case. But I was saying without denominational guidance or accountability to other institutions, the IHOP-KC leadership is left on their own to handle (or not) this situation with Bickle potentially pushing back or overruling them. It is a real question in my mind whether there are any checks and balances in place at IHOP-KC that can actually stand up to Bickle's decades of accumulated charismatic authority.
This was very good. The only thing I would want to remind you is that the black horse and Mike's misconduct are not mutually exclusive. Mike may have indeed abused his position for sexual misconduct. But Satan may in fact pounce on that to attempt to derail the prayer movement. The prayer and missions movement is bigger than Mike himself, and Satan wants to destroy it completely.
Excellent analysis. I write about Third Wave/Vineyard/IHOP/Bickle/emergence of the NAR in my upcoming book for Eerdmans (Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Nonessentials). One data point that jumped out at me as I reviewed some of the major streams within the broader Evangelical movement was how many places C. Peter Wagner had a major influence: in the early days of the Vineyard, Church Growth Movement, and the NAR. Though I was always aware of his presence in each of those spheres, somehow seeing his fingerprints appearing in some many places sort of took me aback.
Thanks, Michelle. I agree. Whether you think it was for good or for ill (and I am very much in the "for ill" camp), Peter Wagner's immense impact on the American and global church cannot be denied. In many ways, he is the central character of my book, The Violent Take It by Force.
I appreciate your work on this subject and your connecting of the dots. However, I don't particularly appreciate your liberal talking points (both in this article and your appearance on Remnant Radio.
1) homosexuality is not something "considered sin" in 5 fold circles. It's straight scripture, supported by all non-woke bible believing churches.
2) Being a Christian and believing in/supporting Israel and the Jewish people is not "Christian Zionism", as though it's a radical, aggressive movement bent on world domination.
3) You also seem to be ringing your hands over "Christian Nationalism", a great woke label applied to any believer who has an ounce of patriotism. To blame Jan. 6 on that/those is patently absurd. This was a false flag event sponsored by your beloved FEDS.
4) Wimber didn't pull the plug on Bickle and KC Metro Vineyard because of false prophecies. Wimber was trying to bring correction and accountability, which of course Bickle ultimately rejected for reasons that are becoming increasingly clear. Bickle pulled out the the Vineyard Assoc. of Churches.
Now that many months have passed, we see the Bickle pickle mess continue to unfold in greater clarity. Questions surface based on the evidence. Case in point, the constant evidence shows that when predators are found at this ministry, their actions are typically ignored and they are sometimes promoted to higher levels for protection. This is their consistent mode of operation.
However one example stands out, and in any investigation where there is a break in the predators’ method should be investigated. What I am speaking about is Paul Cain. According to their consistent actions, this should have been swept under the rug and Paul promoted, but he was not. Instead Bickle, Joyner, and Deere all attacked and publicly smeared him. Why?
Why were their actions on Cain different than all the others? Was it perhaps about something other than Homosexuality from what we have been told?
If a lack of ecclesiastical authority is to blame then how do you explain the culture of rampant abuse and cover-up that has come to light concerning the Roman Catholic Church in recent years?
I wasn't suggesting that the presence of ecclesiastical authority is sufficient to restrain abuse or circumvent cover ups - obviously that's not the case. But I was saying without denominational guidance or accountability to other institutions, the IHOP-KC leadership is left on their own to handle (or not) this situation with Bickle potentially pushing back or overruling them. It is a real question in my mind whether there are any checks and balances in place at IHOP-KC that can actually stand up to Bickle's decades of accumulated charismatic authority.
This was very good. The only thing I would want to remind you is that the black horse and Mike's misconduct are not mutually exclusive. Mike may have indeed abused his position for sexual misconduct. But Satan may in fact pounce on that to attempt to derail the prayer movement. The prayer and missions movement is bigger than Mike himself, and Satan wants to destroy it completely.